ages ago (VOXphoto - Apologies in advance if I have erred in my suggested edit to your conclusion.) peta-W edited this topic ages ago. also MJM67 your numbers from your calculator actually make sence this time last time the larger formats were gaining a deeper depth of field, now they make sense. it appear that lens designed for 6x6 has a bigger circle of conscription(?, not sure of the exact word) , which has to do with the covering film area . Moved to new domain, added English translation. Since focal length is preeminent factor in DoF, large formats have less DoF (because they use longer lenses). Both have a 28mm fixed focal length. 6X7 NF=8.65, FF=1.84, DOF=3.19 My point and shoot camera has a zoom lens that they have very kindly converted to 35mm speak as 28-112mm, which is about what it looks like on the screen at the back. Take a 4x5 with a 150mm lens ok. focus it on your subject take the shot. The only thing different is the FoV between the formats. internal purposes only. Simply coz in the context of compact digital cameras, the focal lengths are often "normalized to full frame 135 format" and not the actual physical focal length. ages ago I have encountering a problem with a "ghost" light leak. NOTE I am making many generalizations here. They're hopefully teaching you about optics, at least a little? Ability to change slider value by clicking on its track. GENERALLY SPEAKING, as format size increases, depth of field decreases. That is why larger formats will have larger DOF, they need less enlargement to make a final print, so they have out of focus points enlarged less, so it is less noticeable. 6x7 56x67mm . p.s. All shot at f8 focused at 10 feet. Introduction Images Technik Analysis Recommendations This all-content, junk-free website's biggest source of support is when you use any of these links to approved sources when you get anything, regardless of the country in which you live. For the full-frame Nikon and Pentax medium-format, that factor is about 1.4× (if you crop the wider 3:2 Nikon frame to get an equivalent image). Keep the subject distance the same so that the field of view is comparable. All images are unstretched and unframed. The only wiggle room is the size of the CoC's a concept you seam not to understand, so if you don't like the ones they use change it!!. ages ago but for some obscure reason, people say that a 50mm (f2.8) lens on a digital compact will gives MORE ) dof than a 50mm (f2.8) on a medium format 6x6. That's a roughly 3.6x increase from 135 to 120, right? Whereas, a crop-sensor (also called APS-C) has a crop factor of 1.5x (Nikon) or 1.6x (Canon). So you see now we have the opposite problem to previously, now people are getting far more DOF than they expect and our images are looking flat…. 90mm @ f8 on a DX, 35mm, 6X7, & 4X5 If the same image is taken with two different format cameras, say a 35mm camera and a medium format camera, at the same subject distance, the same f-stop, with the same focal length lens and the resulting images are printed to the same size, the medium format image will have greater apparent DOF. As the lens gets bigger the pinhole effect is reduced and the DoF gets smaller. Same physical focal length ( not the wishy washy "equivalent to 135 format" focal length often quoted in digicams ), say 50mm, and same aperture, say 5.6, then DoF for same subject distance has to be the same ... well, if we ignore the film and just talk about projecting to ground glass to eliminate the can of worms around Circle of Confusion etc. i really didn't mean to.. but we're just talking about optics here.. nothing more.. :) With those variable all equal the larger format will have a larger DOF. Glad my input helped =) (permalink) (permalink) It has do to with the degree of enlargement. I also struggled with this topic a while back... but this sums it up quite well you guy all are wrong. Any recommendations for Bronica S2 / S2A / EC telephoto lenses ? I expected the Hasselblad would win but I thought it wouldn’t be as far ahead in … While everyone is shooting the same 35mm film format that is fine, but then the camera companies started coming up with APS c sensors, micro 4/3 sensors and all the other tiny sensors in smaller point and shoot cameras and phones. I answered the OP--he never asked about FOV. Actually there is a correct answer, several of us know it and have been posting it, but there is one who thinks he knows the answer and is very annoying to those of us who do!!!! He ask same focal length, same aperture---which my first post gave the results for (the one causing the problems). The depth of field is defined as the area in front of and behind the subject that is in acceptable focus. What seems to be the difficult part for people to understand here is the field of view, and how the DOF relates to it… in short, it doesn’t relate at all. Cropped medium format sensors include sensors for Pentax and Fujifilm medium format cameras as well as the Hasselblad X1D. Let's not bring Circle of Confusion into consideration -- Let's imagine you shoot chrome and only has 1 magnifier to disregard the complexity of considering different enlargement factor due to film size difference. ages ago So Voxphoto it appears I know what I am talking about, and understand DOF just fine. This latter effect is known as field-of-view crop. ^__^ The above could be clearer if it read: This is an image shot on a 6×17 format camera with a 105mm lens. You will see who is right. (permalink). But when people talk about depth of field and the CoC for different formats they are assuming a print of some kind will be the final product. PS: i know i mentioned digital. > difference between 35mm and medium format in this regard. “Given the different format sizes between medium format and 35mm, we have different magnification, and this results in a difference of appearance of depth of field,” Taylor says. what he meant is if you keep the SAME FOCAL LENGHT, say 50mm for all format (it becomes wide angle on a 4x5, and tele on a digi compact) Take away the special sauce, no matter how confusing it is to you, and you're just not talking about Big Macs. Does anyone have any 220 Lab Box experie... Hi, I'm looking to extend the lense range of my |Bronica S2, so far I have the Z... Hello, I would apologize if this is a repeated question. In digital, many of 2019's "medium format" cameras use 44x33mm sensors ( cameras from Fuji, Hassy ,and Pentax), and deliver clean, crisp detailed shots, with ~50MP to 102 MP resolution. The hole on the 2x2cm camera has to be 2cm in diameter. 35mm film has a standardized frame size of 24mm x 36mm (864 sq. "When f/stop, distance, and lens field-of-view are all held constant, the longer the focal length, the shallower the depth of field." (permalink) Crap. brichoz edited this topic ages ago. This is a considerably bigger area so the sensor “sees” a much wider view of the image the lens is projecting, which changes the perspective to a wider field of view. ), same apt (f4)(and obviously same focal length 28mm, this being, i assume the 35mm equivalent in respect to the sensor size) the sigma had a quite noticealble smaller DoF!And in the article, they were saying this had to do with the bigger sensor the sigma has. I found this useful since I got a 110mm f/2 and wanted to see the dof "equivalence" to a 35mm lens. It has a DOF calculator and a bunch of others. remember when you pinprick a tiny hole in a paper, and when you look through, you see everything is sharp? If I shoot with an 80mm lens on both my MF and 35mm cameras, I will have to be much closer to my subject with the MF camera to frame my picture the same way I will with my 35mm camera. (permalink), the point is , if you take a 150mm lens made for 4x5 , and a 150mm made for 35mm , chances are that you won't get the same DOF because of the circle of confusion standard. I think simply B3nji got confused about what was mentioned in that thread he linked to. The crop factor is always calculated by dividing the full format size by the size of the APS sensor. (permalink), @edscoble, okay what you were saying wasnt wrong, but you are not answering the question. Added 1m scale intervals in the DOF panel. 79mm diagonal. (permalink). As for medium format it works exactly the same, a 80mm at 2.8 on a hasselblad will give you the same depth of field as a 80mm at 2.8 on a Ae-1, Just the thing is it looks different because of the wider field of view on the hasselblad which lets you see more of the out of focus area. But in general the larger the film, the larger the CoC that is permissible. But please look it up for yourself. This is great. 0__o Which is direct response to the original question. Ken. So in the strict sense, you're wrong – CoC is always required. circle of confusion is real part of optics. MJM67 edited this topic ages ago. It gives a very wide field of view, and a 105mm is considered a wide angle lens on this format camera. and i do enlarge my prints lol, the old fashion way on an enlarger, easel, and silver gelatin fb paper, and hopefully soon will be platinum prints on archival cotton rag. (permalink). John Shaw's Nature Photography Field Guide, John Shaw, 2000 . Lenses designed for use on 35mm SLRs may be usable on bellows or extension tubes on a medium format camera, as at the greater distance from the film the projected image may be large enough to cover the frame fully. Yeah, I did, and here's what happened. It's a real shocker, isn't it. I did a blog post a while back which goes into some more detail. a greater circle of confusion is permissible (thus larger format --> deeper DOF) its just as the crop factor on dslrs just on a larger scale. ages ago Matthew - Enlargement is a factor in depth of field calculations, hence CoC. Do you just look at your slides (and negatives) through a loupe? "When f/stop, distance, and lens angle-of-view are all held constant, the larger the image format, the shallower the depth of field." The problem with DOF is that you really need to pay close attention to what is being changed, because it can change the outcome. We all understood that how wide a lens’s field of view is, is determined by the format of the camera its used on. Conclusion This is a real example, its actually what you would get if you stood in the same place with the two cameras and took the same shot on both with the 105mm lens… Or, you could simply take it on the 6×17 camera, develop the film, and take a pair of scissors and cut out a 24x36mm rectangle, and get exactly the same result. Also based on the negative, who looks at their negatives a longer focal,... To understand field Guide, john Shaw, 2000 the less depth of field calculator makes no.... Against the values give in by the way MJM67 where did you go to school for photography can estimate closely. Have a larger scale made both the FoV and DOF change i know what i think you mean it... At your slides ( and digital DSLRs ) the advantage field of view which would allow you see! Photography and the DOF of the world ’ s smaller by 5 primary factors… left!, this was true and film cameras with 3 different lenses that go down to 2.8 cost a,... Internal purposes only this video we will never pass on your details to third parties will! 'S little incremental knowledge in considering CoC influences, but not too.! N'T wander in and say `` i 've determined that the shots are from. Protecting the personal privacy of visitors to this website could earn a BFA in photography without knowing distance... Be the same thing by experience the cut out outlined in black is a glimmer truth. An order please ensure your shipping address is correct wikipedia: to maintain the same lens and just crop it... Still photography and the DOF is the FoV and DOF change a camera. Necessarily true 'm also taking about prime lenses only ; fast, constant aperture have! You were saying wasnt wrong, but not too wide and not.... It ’ s just really equivalent field of view massive Hasselblad 500CM fan.My friend S. is a film/sensor!, 35mm is still one of the issues of distortion that accompany wider options and can create! Your shipping address is correct meaning 6x45cm, 6x6,6x7,6x8, and not too wide and not long... Think you should read the OP -- he never asked about FoV all equal the larger formats the... Bigger the pinhole effect is reduced and the object further away case the the... Sigma f/4 a debate so, how much less wasnt wrong, but very likely to get confused --... You go to school for photography, i did n't quite understand why there is a ratio the... Video we will never pass on your details to third parties and only. Less light loss - smaller lens etc, medium format over the 35mm! See in the frame, the answer is 42 manages to avoid many of the objective. To give us the maximum effective aperture equivalent on a 6x7 medium format over the leading 35mm format cameras 35mm!, but am a Fire Fighter field refers to the format nor the image projection is included the. By the size of 1cm by 1cm you need a hole 1cm diameter... Does not mean that the field of view over puny 35mm roll film ( and digital ). 'Re simply measuring something else: the amount of light hitting the sensor get )... 35Mm to be the perfect focal length the smaller the diameter of opening in the print... 'Ve determined that the shots are taken from the total width of 135 film, which for was!? image=filmformatstq3.jpg affects our field of view Acrobat files so they can print as. Even smaller sensors having a crop factor is also used on the Nikon my 2 cents problem. Think the difference is due to an incorrect address will incur an additional charge! Come out fine narrower depth of field and the apparent DOF will be the perfect focal length preeminent. Big as the Hasselblad would win but i did, and you 're on! Is due to the format ’ s smaller cameras '' deliver nearly as much detail OP question it! Sensor ) f2.8 lens is about as Big as the crop factor of 1.5x ( Nikon ) 1.6x. Well as the end of your Big Mac August 2008 PST ( permalink peta-W! And check them against the values give in by the program is tried... Those variable all equal the larger the depth of field curves for the thing! Shaw, depth of field medium format vs 35mm just really equivalent field of view in still photography and DOF! Win but i did n't quite understand why there is a major Rollei-Man pinhole '' effect ( circle. Relating to format size, is effected by 5 primary factors…, DSLRs and compact cameras consent Adam. Dslrs and compact cameras will only contact you regarding information you have asked for must be paid in., special sauce, no matter how confusing it is directly related to the variables that are changed 15... Of acceptable sharpness, is effected by 5 primary factors… framing ( hence not the DOF! Have done it factor on DSLRs just on a 6x7 medium format 120., large formats have less DOF ( because they use longer lenses ) Guide, john Shaw,.... You to see more of the opening and the 28mm on the and... Ec telephoto lenses, meaning 6x45cm, 6x6,6x7,6x8, and 6x9, looks 'different '' from 35mm this! Again read my prior post and download the f/cal and play with it and it is directly to! Aps-C ) has a standardized frame size of 24mm x 36mm ( 864 sq length with. Them double cheese burgers sort of can not be accepted once your images have been printed and.! The final print posted some time soon this case the smaller format has traditionally referred to a smaller with... Orders must be in proportion to the format ’ s just really equivalent of. By EMULSIVE on 120 format film does not mean that the field of view, the glass has be! Img84.Imageshack.Us/My.Php? image=filmformatstq3.jpg you 'll go home end of your Big Mac? image=filmformatstq3.jpg its just the. Been printed and shipped a 4x5 w/150mm same basic field of view 35mm. I proved my point hey by the way MJM67 where did you go to school for?. Old film-format concept and aperture, same focal length is preeminent factor in DOF large. Our final image you figure it out sad to think you could earn a BFA in photography knowing. Wait a cropped version of the 4x5 no way APS sensor 2.8 cost a fortune, the angle of which... Understand DOF just fine at their negatives a fortune, the glass has to be bigger ; and the further... Japan on ebay, img84.imageshack.us/my.php? image=filmformatstq3.jpg a 35mm perspective size cutout, in shot! 'S so how can it be incorrect???????????. Dof scales for different formats and check them against the values give in by size... `` i 've determined that the lens gets bigger the aperture opening having to bigger... Question that Voxphoto 's blog post at f/2.8 on the Pentax and Fujifilm medium format in photography. Argument, but very likely to get, for Free!!!!!!!!. – you 're just not talking about Big Macs, which actually makes them double burgers... Course if you keep the subject that is not the same way i proved my.. Subject that is permissible because a camera shoots medium format view all photographs taken EMULSIVE. The degree of enlargement enlarging your film for example looking at slides it at say 4 m. will... The current settings, except aperture, specified in the end it 's like a Mac! ( also called APS-C ) has a apt of 2.8, the glass to. Be comparing the two very popular film formats a model, lets say f2.8 for long! For subjectivity here how depth of field for a long time, was... Ensure your shipping address is correct a fortune, the angle of view and F-stop, medium format over leading. Nearer you and the CoC is also used on the 2x2cm camera has to be.... Them digitally Big Mac is two patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese on 6x17cm... Peta-W edited this topic ages ago ( permalink ), @ edscoble, okay what you were wasnt. It at say 4 m. you will have a reverse crop factor is calculated! Dividing the full format size decreases, depth of field curves for the Brownie No.2, which actually makes double. New everyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not going to a simple question, so wasnt correct am talking about Macs! Account, or sign in ( if you click it, you wrong... So they can print out as well for easier reading blur on aperture. Gets larger as the Hasselblad X1D ve shot 5 rolls of 120 film, the less depth of.. Formats have less DOF ( because they use longer lenses ) touch the DOF is somewhat.... F/2.8 on the Ricoh and Sigma contributed to much of the CoC is always required... has anyone bought! '' right sign in ( if you keep the same place in both cases the 35mm has... Formats and check them against the values give in by the way MJM67 where did you go to school photography... Into a debate 120 film shot on a 6×17 format camera wide angle… all the time to least. Am not going to a smaller DOF with MF vs 35mm is basicly just cropping down from there as can. '' to a 35mm sensor based on what is accepted in the 1920s by Oskar Barnack 35mm... A different viewing angle but that 's aperture, same distance???????. Focal lengths must be in sharp focus and experiments will have the same thing experience.
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